Chain Gun test period

I'm guessing that people ain't really visiting this forum? At least i don't on a regular base (ok last few days cause i have to study and everything else is more interesting). I kinda agree with Devil. I don't mind the power of cg but it's weird how easy it is to control it. Compare it to real life guns and you'll see what i'm on about. Specially if you ever been close to any of the guns that are similar to smg or cg in the way of shooting. You just can't control the cg that easily and imo that should be reinact at babos cg

Cinc wrote:
@frosty: cg's only current weakness is immobility, but then again it's totally map&player dependent.

I said that every weapon had some disadvantages, and ofc some qualities.
Imo cg has not only one (accuracy harder than with SMG, especially at long range, then when you're noob with cg like me, cause I tried once, you shoot like a pig and get the reload ), but then again, comparing is useless. Some disadvatanges are greater than others, and so on...

And if I ask you what's SMG' disadvantage ?

Probably none. But some people will say :

"It does not need any disadvantage, it has so little damages, compared to every other weapon"...

But you can go wherever you want, you can use gunside from close or far from a wall (and more easily than with cg, even if the actual kickback of cg allows you to use gunside), and having to make more bullets on target to kill is not hard for pr0 SMGs (not me) with such an accuracy ! Even at long range.




Thanks An





And I agree with varlan. I'd be glad to see as much CG as SMG and/or sniper, the game would be more rich !
Too bad there are not as much Zookas, FTs, SGs, photons and DMGs





If I'm not yet a photon pr0, or sg pr0, or cg pr0, it's cause I prefer to play SMG and DMG, much more polyvalent and easier to use IMO !
And it's the case of a lot of people !

To make a weapon moar popular, overpower it.

Frosty wrote:

I said that every weapon had some disadvantages, and ofc some qualities.
Imo cg has not only one (accuracy harder than with SMG, especially at long range, then when you're noob with cg like me, cause I tried once, you shoot like a pig and get the reload ), but then again, comparing is useless. Some disadvatanges are greater than others, and so on...

Actually it's easier to aim with the cg, even at long range. I remember the days i was playing with Nostrad, just tagging ppl and me cleaning up the kills across the map, while i was defending. Actually I'm suprised a lot ppl are speaking in here, but have never being no where near to master this weapon. Now hold on, Im not saying you can't tell your opinion if you never played this weapon, I'm just saying stop telling us some wrong fact.

For example, who the fudge cares about cg's reload ? On def ? No. On attack ? No! You just rape the guy in about 0.5 sec and then have all your time to walk.

@ keta: A weapon is overpowered when you see lame pub players just killing you easily, when they were no where near to put you half health with a decent weapon.

Frosty wrote:
when you're noob like me, [...] reload

Agreed clay, about reload

@ketamine: ft has also been tweaked not so long ago, cause there were also questions about it being OP, and nobody complains about it now cause imo it's perfectly balanced (well, maybe not on all maps but then again you can say the same for sniper). Then you say that cca 60 ppl played on rs. That number seems okay. And now let's count how many of those played with/against cg. As my first post says, ppl are encouraged to play with cg now, and spot the differences. For example I didn't cast my vote here until I played couple of schoolies with 0.14 cg and couple of pubs with 0.16.

@frosty: smg's disadvantage? There is none. But look at it overall. Smg has the 2nd lowest damage in babo. It doesn't lower your mobility much. You can use gunside. In the end, it's completely average. And that's why it's played the most. But guess what? Smg is easily defeated by any other weapon if they utilize their advantages (dmg in a medium range fight, cg if the enemy is coming at you, sg and ft at close range, sniper, photon and zooka at a distance). Like I said, cg's ONLY disadvantage is mobility, but by placing it in def and also knowing to hold your ground, like oxy and mumu do, eliminates that disadvantage. Ergo, we have to balance it out now.

Besides, if you want more pro players to play other weapons, the only thing you can do is disable smg. Human psychology is that they're not gonna take any risks by picking a weapon with a disadvantage. But since we can't have diversity, let's at least have equality.

CG needs the old kickback on every client. Thats simple, if it can not be changed then obviously the only other route is to lower the damage. Its OP, Devils post said it all.

cg is back to 0.16 on rs1 for a while until we come up with a better way to test it

Nath wrote:CG needs the old kickback on every client. Thats simple, if it can not be changed then obviously the only other route is to lower the damage. Its OP, Devils post said it all.

I agree... the only ways to get the cg back in balance is lower dmg or the recoil (kickback)...

Cinc, I have to admit, has made a good point in his last post, tough not in the favour of nerfing CG or any other weap for a matter of fact. SMG disadvantage. None. CG, he said imobillity. I'd also put the herratic bullet streak, from 3-4 blocks away. Now even with one disadvantage any weapon is theoretically weaker than SMG, regardless the 0.10 dmg perbullet of the aformentioned weap. If you make them even weaker by tweaking any of it's specs you make it unballanced, making the SMG have the upper hand.
It is clear that everybody who wants to change a gun compares it with SMG yet no one accepts this fact. For me this is sad and stupid. And be honest, does any SMG player feel that the weapon's 0.10 dmg per bullet is too low? : ))
Come on... I have never felt CG is op. On the other side I felt like an idiot for not being able to out manouver and dodge my opponent. I am sure that many of you see yourselves better than me, yet it's me the one who is ok with things as they are. Think about it.

varlan wrote:
It is clear that everybody who wants to change a gun compares it with SMG yet no one accepts this fact. For me this is sad and stupid. And be honest, does any SMG player feel that the weapon's 0.10 dmg per bullet is too low? : ))

lol... smg is the most played weapon in game. If we dont compare it to smg, we can compare it to cg.. ok but than all guns are underpowered...and than yes 0.10 for smg is to low... SAME RESULT!!! ok?


in the past cg was nearly perfectly balanced but not after this recoil is gone, the cg cant be balanced... logical conclusion! I dont understand why every cg player or even noncgplayers are saying that cg isnt op!?

I just played schooly with SMG against some CG's. BIG UNDERPOWER. GREAT ADVANTAGE FOR CG =))
PLEASE MAKE IT 0.14 AND BIGGER RECOIL. BIG UNFAIR. :'( I CAN'T KILL THRAWN ALL THE TIME. NEED CHANGE. PLS.

Now on a serious and objective note. It's true that if you are a poor little babo and you go straight in the bullet stream of the CG you die in less than half a second like Clay said. But that's not abnormal. With an SMG that would be something to think about, but having in mind what CG should be it's the way it should be.

Frosty, I said DMG is 0.14 as default. It got lowered, after some discussions here on the forum, to 0.13.
No change to CG imo.

Cinc wrote:Ergo, we have to balance it out now.

I still disagree, we do not need to change anything, but whatever.




Only thing I wanted to point out again is what varlan :
Both varlan and I are "weak" players of the community, or considered as weak, skill-talking, I mean killing-talking, which is what matters when you compare the power of different weapons.
And we're ok with the situation now

But the players who are stronger here, complain about it and wanna changes

That's funny to me

h8me wrote:Frosty, I said DMG is 0.14 as default. It got lowered, after some discussions here on the forum, to 0.13.
No change to CG imo.

Actually, 0.13 was the default for 3 years, until the very last server upgrade that made it 0.14, it was noticed after a couple of months and returned to 0.13. So I think it's fair to say that 0.13 is the default.

EDIT: Varlan, stop twisting my words. If you just want to read the part of the post where I say smg has no disadvantages, feel free to, but don't make a completely unrelated argument out of it.

varlan wrote:Now on a serious and objective note. It's true that if you are a poor little babo and you go straight in the bullet stream of the CG you die in less than half a second like Clay said. But that's not abnormal. With an SMG that would be something to think about, but having in mind what CG should be it's the way it should be.

wrong... we (the not cgplayer) know how it feels to get damaged by a cg. you can dogde like you want, in fact the cg will kill you. Its just that , that the cg is op.

OHW ... I AM A LESS SKILL SPEAKING PLAYER, NOW THE CG MAKES ME STRONGER AND WIN VS NORMALY STRONG PLAYERS... YEAHA!

thast the point! cg is op in any way. ITS FACT!!!

Well I agree with what fibs said. When everyone plays the same weapon, you kinda have a fair fight, and you will see the most skilled win the match. And I believe it's how it should be, (i mean, the most skilled winning) all should come down to who has the best shots, and the best team setup/strategy. Because remember, it's a 3rd-person shooter, and not a strategic game. (well 3rd ps does involve strategy, but not as much as a real strategic games)

And it also piss me off, when somebody kill me just cause we didn't had a fair fight.

Now you could come and tell me, just get a team setup who counter the other one, but seriously, nobody knows to do that in here xD

fiby wrote: we (the not cgplayer) know how it feels to get damaged by a cg. you can dogde like you want, in fact the cg will kill you. Its just that , that the cg is op.

Oh sorry. I haven't been playing babo for the last 4 years. I don't know all this. YOU, the rest of babo players, except me, frosty, crapper and others who voted against nerfing, know how it's to fight against CG and we don't.
Fibs my man. Grow up, stop whining and start learning how to move :*
And with 0.14 you need 7-8 bullets to kill in 1v1, with 0.16 you need 6-7. So make it 0.12 to be fair. What do you say? That way Fiby can have a chance

you say it... you can kill with a cg faster than with a smg! why we are still complaining? I think its clear

A fun fact: At this very moment there are 19 votes. In my first post, I told people to come and play cg and give their opinion here. 4 people who played it last 2 days are me, andi, varlan and admi, and I was online most of the time. Let's add 4 people who actually play cg, oxy, mumu, pana and clay. Let's just add around 5 more people who played couple of rs matches against both old and new cg. I'd say that number of people eligible to give their opinion is around 13. And those 13 people include neither frosty, crapper, ketamine, fiby, rubell and nath.

So before you post any more crap from both sides, go and use that cg, or play a smg-vs-cg match with one of the 4 mentioned regular cgs.

Your opinions until then will be ignored.

Man, for guys who don't consider themselves to be Pr0s you sure like to tell other people to get better xD

SMG is an all around general weapon. It's like swords in the medieval times. Sure there would be other weapons, like Spears and Axes and what not, but swords were the most common of them because they were the best all around weapon, perhaps with the lowest difficulty curve in the beginning.

If we would now equip the medieval Axe with self propulsion engine and make it unbreakable, thus making it break everything on the way, I guess not even the best of the swordmen would stand much of a chance cuz the axe would just be OP.
Yes, silly analogy but the atomsphere is pretty thick here as it is, so just chill out. xD

Fact of the matter is some people consider CG to be OP, and these same people are not players who just started playing Babo and can't take a challenge, these are people who have been playing for years, they know the feel of their weapon and how it is to play against other weapons.

It may be that these players are not used to play against Almighty CG players yet so maybe that's the problem, but it could also be the fact that the CG is indeed OP.
It's hard to know where to draw the line because since the update for the CG was made, CG players haven't surfaced up until now, which is why it became more noticeable and which is why there's this thread in the 1st place (same thing happened with the zooka).

Lets say there is a weapon that is not usually played because there aren't that many ppl interested in it (lets say Sniper), thus we can consider that it hasn't really been tuned and balanced perfectly. Say it has 90 damage but that seems okay cuz at first glance the people who play it will think: meh, it's damn hard to hit with it anyway, prolly not many ppl with use it so it might as well have some good damage to it.

After a couple of weeks or months, some players keep playing with Sniper and they get pretty good. They get so good that they start pwning people that have been playing with a certain weapon for years. So now what?
Sure, the new snipers will just shout: "eh, you don't know how to play vs a good sniper, just learn how to dodge and stop complaining", while the rest of the players will say its OP.

Hey, in the end it might be that Var finally found his vocation and that the ideal weapon for him has always been the CG, but what we're trying to do here is not deprive people of the fun of playing and being awesome with another weapon but trying to make sure that things aren't out of balance, so not to ruin everyone's elses fun.

Teh Devil haz spoken. Can't agree moar about what you said.

@ Cinc : I did never want to create any fight here. I never said that anyone was talking crap.

Crapper, ketamine, fiby, rubell, Nath and I have already played with cg, and I think our opinion counts too, even if we maybe didnt play since you opened the topic.

Moreover, I've seen fiby and Nath playing cg already since you created the topic, so add them to your "list of persons whose opinion now matters", please.

Grazie.




[quote=Devil] [...]
Fact of the matter is some people consider CG to be OP, and these same people are not players who just started playing Babo and can't take a challenge, these are people who have been playing for years, they know the feel of their weapon and how it is to play against other weapons.
[...][/quote]

I globally agree with you Dev, but there are also "people who have been playing for years, who know the feel of their weapon and how it is to play against other weapons" who consider CG as almost equal





Now, maybe I'm just nostalgic of the old babo times, and want to stop adding changes, although there was a bigger kickback in the past and that my opinion is that we shouldn't change anything.




If the decision taken is to reduce cg's power, I think that greater kickback is a better idea than lowering damages.

It adds diversity in the weapons, keeps cg as a "high damages weapon with great rate of fire", which is how chain guns behave in the truth, and adds a "big kickback weapon" among the only 8 weapons we can choose. It's a better idea. By lowering damages of cg, we make it too similar to smg, which is not good imo.

I just hope that, if the kickback is chosen, nobody will complain against it again, cause if it will still have a great strength, kickback is really annoying. You'll go where you don't want to, you will run into flames, and won't be able to stand for a long time using gunside, apart if you're rly strong

Like people said before I did, it's indeed the change in the recoil (kickback) of the CG that made it OP.

I understand what you mean by nostalgia, and in a way I agree with you, Fro. We need to keep some things to remind us of the past, but we won't be able to evolve if we don't change the things that need to be changed - Not saying that this applies to all weapon changes suggested or such.

If there is no other way to tweak the CG (like putting back the old recoil) then I guess the decision would have to be between leaving it as it is or lowering the damage.

And here instead of looking at it like: "wtf, if we lower the dmg it won't be a CG anymore, so it's no good", we can look at it like: "well, the recoil has been changed, so a Disadvantage has been - in its majority - removed. We can't take away the disadvantage and leave everything else the way it was cuz that would be unbalanced, thus we have to change something else."

Sure, you might argue that it's the removal of the kickback that made it a "playable" weapon. But then how do you explain the fact that there were masters of this weapon even before, and they were pwning with it. The difference was that it wasn't unbalanced, because although the dmg output was high, mobility was lower and as such you couldn't attack with it, like I've seen lately and you couldn't stand still shooting with near perfect accuracy xD