Zooka, once and for all

Gloom wrote:Did any1 notice that each admin, who defend zooka, is in a clan that use zooka in cms and winning... Conspiracy : |

Ever since you said you voted "fudge you cinc" i stopped taking you seriously in this matter xD

Clearly Cinc has nothing to do and all of you feed his psychosis. I mean, what kind of an option to a serious poll is "fudge you Cinc" ? Psycho troll is taking over the forum. Where is the babo police?

varlan wrote:Clearly Cinc has nothing to do and all of you feed his psychosis. I mean, what kind of an option to a serious poll is "fudge you Cinc" ? Psycho troll is taking over the forum. Where is the babo police?

Nop varlan, sry you're still the psycho troll here. But at least I had someone to learn trolling from.

Get a Life?

so it's 16-15 , since most ppl said that fudge u is NO , im quoting vel

VelveT. wrote:Get a Life.

Geronimo wrote:... spill ashes on my self... ;-)

I'd like some clarification of this part . Is it the same as saying "OK, I was wrong"? Cool expression though lol.

h8me wrote:

Geronimo wrote:... spill ashes on my self... ;-)

I'd like some clarification of this part . Is it the same as saying "OK, I was wrong"? Cool expression though lol.

He's pro in what he does : ))

h8me wrote:

Geronimo wrote:... spill ashes on my self... ;-)

I'd like some clarification of this part . Is it the same as saying "OK, I was wrong"? Cool expression though lol.

ye, you got that correctly. ;-)

I can throw some dirt on you, if you like Gero.

ill keep that in mind. :-P

Uhmm...

Zooka IS annoying indeed. Mostly because of the screenshake though. If you already have some low fps or lagz/spikes then it's even more annoying. Of course, having low fps or lags doesn't concern the weapon itself (get a better pc/connection, right?), but even without these the screenshaking is there.

I've read all the posts so far and I must say that both parties have their share of reason. How is that?

Well, for starters, zooka IS op. Not the whole weapon system, but the Remote Detonation is. Think about it. How do you avoid remote detonation? Other weapons are usually avoided by dodging or hiding behind a wall, but the same is not possible with zooka, because of RD. Yes, all weapons should be different, but having a weapon that can damage you when no other weapon can, is Op. So zooka is slow to shoot, but so is photon. And photon doesn't damage you if you dodge it or hide behind a wall.
Zooka with RD is like having an Photon that can have its laser bend around the corner if the timming is right, and damage you.

At the same time, truth be told, a single zooka player, no matter how great he is, can't really make a difference when playing against a well organized team. The best teams have great teamplay, so one zooka player isn't gonna make that much difference. Also, like stated before, not a lot of people played vs zooka, which is, I believe, also one of the reasons why not that many people complain about it.
So yes, it's true: Not everyone is complaining about it, and some of the greatest players that belong to great clans don't have a problem with it.

So now, to start, without players name, teamplay or personal skills involved, tell me who has the upper hand in a cm: the team that can damage enemies that are hidden or the one that can't? Now take one really good zooka player and place it in a great team, which has great teamplay capability. The result is going to be more people complaining about it.

I think the fact that that when a zooka hits the wall some damage is received from the splash, is enough, without having RD.

So personally, I don't mind RD, mainly because there is no player (atm) from a clan that I'm playing against and that is pissing me off by killing/damaging me behind a wall.
But having no zookers play actively in cms doesn't mean that the RD features isn't OP ^^

Just my 2 (long) cents

PS: I voted "I don't care"

Dev made it clear. Take 3 "middle class" players with zookas and 3 "middle class" players with smg and guess who'd win. Fyi gero, while you were inactive, clan <(Q)> used a clever "ft defender + 2 zookas" tactic, and even nbz, who was the strongest euro clan at that moment, couldn't defeat them on their map.

It's all fine and great that ppl are against the remote but take this into concideration: How fast does a rocket really fly? I mean, if you get close to a zooka player and remote is on sure, it's hard to dodge it but from afar... really, no contest imo. I think it's more due to a habit of not moving far enough away from the edge of the wall where you're hiding than it is a matter of not being able to hide. If you're placed at a wall, you can easily move the 2 tiles that the remote covers, easily.
As for a photon ray that can bend, I'd say it's not the same thing at all. Photon is a spam weapon for most but used effectively, it can cut off the enemys path to the flagger/base. On top of that you can't cross the path of the ray right after it's fired but you can when a zooka is fired. Most ppl get damaged by photon trying to dodge from side to side ending up staying in the beam, rather than getting out of its path, or crossing it twice.
The splash effect of zooka can be negated by moving away from a wall and as most maps have more than 2 tiles og entrance it's not hard to avoid the splash from zooka while walling as a defender. That leaves the screen shake but really, I say deal with it or don't play BV cause the screen shake has always been there. It's just a part of the zooka that some got annoyed with and has gotten the community all riled up about

Making an example of "3 middle class players" holds no sway in this poll imo. None of the clan players are middle class. Even the tryouters are above that level. Also "eye" clan had some very good players, very good indeed. That they played with zooka and won just goes to show that players aren't used to play against it.

Well, it doesn't really matter how fast it flies if it comes out of nowhere, and since most of the maps have plenty of walls, you pretty much get damage no matter what you do. Even if it flies really slow and you dodge it, if there are walls around, you need to dodge 2 or 3 tiles away to avoid damage. With RD there is no escaping damage at all, even if you dodge the rocket.

Now... as for the "hide behind the wall, and take cover 2 more tiles than usual" advice: The time you take the Proper cover and you move back is the time another rocket will be incoming at you, so you need to take cover again. You might as well not move at all if you don't wanna get damaged, cause there's no time to take proper cover and still go out of cover and shoot - which is ... you know... how the combat usually goes.
And think about the fact that there are maps where there is no "2 more extra" tiles to take cover.

Granted that a photon laser bending around a wall is not the same thing, but it was an example of an OP feature, just like RD is.

Sure, Photon shoots through enemies and constanly inflicts damage while the beam is there, but Zooka damages you if it hits the walls around you, it also damages your teammates if they're near you when it hits (all this is considered as splash damage, ofc), and it also has RD which damages you behind walls and in mid-air even if you've dodged the rocket.

By the way, C ...consideration* (sorry, I couldn't resist :PPP)

Cinc wrote:Dev made it clear. Take 3 "middle class" players with zookas and 3 "middle class" players with smg and guess who'd win. Fyi gero, while you were inactive, clan <(Q)> used a clever "ft defender + 2 zookas" tactic, and even nbz, who was the strongest euro clan at that moment, couldn't defeat them on their map.

Only Marek used that , and as I remember they were loosing everything anyway . So I don't know where did you get that kind of informations :/ . And about zooka :

I voted "no" cause I think its normal weap and it should not be disabled or fixed . Ofc it is annyoing but in my opinion cg also is . If you have problems with your fps , ping , or smth while somebody is playing zooka just go spec and tell them to change it Cinc. -.- And don't tell smth like " If you won't stop using it ill just ban you" like last time

IMO the poll should be remade with only two voting options, I say this for two reasons. First, whether it was intentional or not , by adding the "fu cinc" option you divided the votes, some said they voted "fu cinc" which from their perspective meant no. To have a clear result there should only be "yes" and "no". Second, many older, more experienced players have very good arguments for and against removing RD, arguments which IMO weigh a lot to newer players who probably voted. That is my humble semi-off topic opinion . Happy Easter everyone!

OK first of all I haven't read all posts, havent even finish this one , so I'm sorry if I missquote something or say something that has already been told. My PC is old, full of dust, I backup important files cuz Im expecting it to die in any minute, but I've never had any problem with screenshake. If ur PC cannot handle this, then maybe u should move to some other game, such as snake or pong, cuz if we were listing to u, we would end up with a game with no colours/effects/textures and players. Ofc in the original version of babo, if u get seriously hit, the screen goes red and u shake, but u can still act. Its another challenge, like trying to fight after being hit by flashbang... anyway, if u get hit this much, ur probably left with almost no HP so u cannot expect to live any long.

h8me wrote:...I think it's more due to a habit of not moving far enough away from the edge of the wall where you're hiding than it is a matter of not being able to hide. If you're placed at a wall, you can easily move the 2 tiles that the remote covers, easily.
...

Yes you ppl got the idea, u can dodge it by running as far as you can. But u cannot be running all the game. The point of the game is to kill and capture. You hide 2 tiles behind the wall, but then what? Are you gonna stay there till the countdown ends ? You'll eventually have to go and fight >> and get direct hit by zooka. This hiding behind wall is X times worse than fighting zooka in open area. You could throw grenade to scare him, but he can do the same, or he can shoot zooka, and since the rocket is slow, he has time to cover and uncover while the rocket is still in the air threatening you.

Nevertheless, I dont really care about zooka, even though I find it a little owerpowered. I would be happier if we fixed (=nerfed ) photon and made shotgun what its supposed to be like

We've already been through this with shotgun once, when everyone started using it, in pubs, in CMs and the problem was solved by implementing this version of shotgun. Why do we use something else now ? Why are there different settings through the servers ? Why is nuke enabled on pubs but disabled on squads ?

Memento, I luv you

if you cant hide behind walls when zook attacks you then change your tactics like i said so many times before. and for all of you that apparently do not understand this i will spell it out -> be aggressive and run out of your little hiding place and attack that zook, against even remotely good smg or sniper zook will not stand a chance. i am tho sad that i had to actually write this down, expected from all of you great players to actually figure this out on your own... :-/ because this is babo, fight fight fight, not hide behind walls like pus.sies (what i do it all the time but when its not possible then do not do it, that is the concept of ADAPTING ).

and +1 fire about poll fail. ^^

in any case, i am finished with this debate, i said all that i wanted to say, from my point of view everything else is repeating because ppl dont read/understand or just campaign for their point of view. just put a simple yes/no poll without biased post underneath it and that topic is locked and be done with it.

my opinion is that people will vote for removing remote detonation, why is that i already said, ill just add it will be sad moment but true reflection of todays babo community. ;-)

love

Geronimo wrote:love

<4.3

Raptile wrote: And don't tell smth like " If you won't stop using it ill just ban you" like last time

The ban part was obviously a joke , but the part where i stopped the cm and asked clay to change weapon wasn't. He took cg and the cm went along normally.

FireBall wrote:Second, many older, more experienced players have very good arguments for and against removing RD, arguments which IMO weigh a lot to newer players who probably voted.

Only arguments for were "it's a weapon like any other" and "pro players don't have a problem with it".

memento wrote:....

The reason why sg isn't like that is because doing that would also make remote zooka automatically disabled, and apparently higher-up admins don't want that.

Geronimo wrote:
love

Fu I have copyright on Luv

Cinc wrote:but the part where i stopped the cm and asked clay to change weapon wasn't. He took cg and the cm went along normally.

And he's proud of this...

Sry for the double post.

Cinc wrote:

Raptile wrote: And don't tell smth like " If you won't stop using it ill just ban you" like last time

The ban part was obviously a joke ,

no offense but it's not an obvious joke when it's an admin who in past dissabled zooka during his cm to avoid it
- Captain Obvious

Geronimo wrote:if you cant hide behind walls when zook attacks you then change your tactics like i said so many times before. and for all of you that apparently do not understand this i will spell it out -> be aggressive and run out of your little hiding place and attack that zook, against even remotely good smg or sniper zook will not stand a chance.

Oh cmon, G. xD
You know it doesn't really go like that. Fighting against a really good zooker is not as simple as just "be more agressive". Imagine saying that about a sniper. Oh, Admi is on you? Just stop hiding and go after him.
I don't know, maybe you haven't met really good zookers, but it's pretty hard to overtake them, especially on some maps and with good teamplay from their team. No, it's definitely not impossible, and like I said before, just one good zooka player against a well organized team doesn't make the difference. I also know you like the challenge of fighting a stronger oponent, but that doesn't mean it's not Op xD